Final Forum: A Dragon Ball Podcast

Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero! (S1E22)

Jelli and Bekinney take a break from Akira Toriyama's manga/anime once again to discuss a NEW MOVIE! 

In this episode:

• Jelli and Bekinney discuss Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero but FIRST
• We have some news items to discuss
• We talk about the collaboration between Swatch and Dragon Ball Z and discuss the watches for Goku, Vegeta, Master Roshi, Frieza, Cell, Gohan, and Majin Buu and which one is an unfortunate miss
• The news items then turns to discussion of the new arcs of the Dragon Ball Super manga that have been completed since the anime went on hiatus in 2019 including the Moro arc and the Granolah arc
• We have a hot rumor about the return of the Dragon Ball Super anime
• Talk then turns to discussion of studio amalgamation and the Warner Brothers-Discovery merger and the fallout from their decisions around HBO Max, including the cancellation of the Bat Girl movie, the reaction from the creator of Tig n' Seek, and the company's staunch refusal to denounce Ezra Miller or delay the Flash movie
• Bekinney discuss the show Megas XLR
• We talk about the upcoming game Dragon Ball The Breakers
• Then we get into the movie, we break down a plot synopsis, and we discuss our general feelings on Gamma 1, Gamma 2, Cell Max, Magenta, Doctor Hedo, Carmine, Beast Gohan, Orange Piccolo, and the decisive bout between Goku and Vegeta
• This is a more loose and goosey episode than usual, as it's more reaction-based and less research-based, but if you're a fan, sit back and enjoy as we delve into some RECENT Dragon Ball items.
• and more, including some general pop culture, trivia, and editorializing, as usual 

Join us as we continue to uncover the cultural meanings, publication facts, inspirations and more behind the wildly popular Dragon Ball franchise.

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The Red Ribbon Army Debuts (S1E21)

Jelli and Bekinney continue breaking down Akira Toriyama's worldwide manga and anime phenomenon by breaking down episode 34 of the show, "Cruel Commander Red" and we dig into the Red Ribbon Army

In this episode:

• Jelli and Bekinney are finally safe(?) on a Frieza Force planet
• We recap Cruel Commander Red and discuss our favorite bits
• Bekinney talks about how Toriyama once again inverts the narrative of Dragon Ball and Goku
• We talk about some of the upcoming references that we will come across such as James Bond, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Terminator, Alien, and other favorites of the eccentric manga ka
• Jelli discusses Goku's new two-fold goal and how he for the first time, has some agency of his own in the story in his pursuit of Grandpa Gohan's Four-Star Dragon Ball
• We break down some of the psychology of Dragon Ball and how Goku is always a positive force who interacts with others who have one major character flaw, and how Goku's nature brings this character flaw to light
• Goku shows us how confidence can overcome doubt, how strategy can overcome strength, how humility can overcome pride, and we're here to talk about that
• Does Dragon Ball have a deeper message? We take a peak at that question
• We discuss how the anime and manga start bleeding into one another a little bit, as this arc of the manga takes place as the anime finally begins airing
• We discuss how the Red Ribbon Army was influenced by the red armies of China, and the USSR as well as the fascist Nazi Party, as well as its fictional sources of inspiration such as from the crime syndicate Shocker of the Kamen Rider series and Spectre of the Bond franchise
• We talk about whether this Red Ribbon Army is a political statement and if Toriyama is propagating some US-Japan alliance propaganda, as well as some capitalism over communism ideals, or if this is just fun nonsense
• and more, including some general pop culture, trivia, and editorializing, as usual 

Join us as we continue to uncover the cultural meanings, publication facts, inspirations and more behind the wildly popular Dragon Ball franchise.

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On the Importance of Filler...plus Wedding Talk! (S1E20)

Which episodes of Dragon Ball had to be edited due to the September 11th World Trade Center attack?

Jelli and Bekinney continue breaking down Akira Toriyama's worldwide manga and anime phenomenon by jumping back into the show, and delving into how filler is important when creating an anime based on a manga. We discuss the episodes "The Roaming Lake", "Pilaf and the Mystery Force", "Wedding Plans?", "The Flying Fortress Vanished!", and "The Legend of a Dragon" and we dig into why filler exists, as well as some of Asian culture's wedding traditions.

In this episode:

• Jelli and Bekinney are once more drifting through space
• We break down the episodes and scrape where we can, looking for homages and cultural references
• We come up pretty sparse, despite thinking there might be some significance to a roaming lake
• We find some Star Wars and Death Star references, within an episode
• We discuss some of the music and its importance
• We talk about the FIFA World Cup from 1986, which was hosted by Mexico
• The difference between Toriyama's approach to the real world vs the anime is made clear via a reference to Alexander the Great
• We talk about marriage traditions in China and Japan
• A discussion of September 11, 2001 and the attacks on the World Trade Center due to a bit of censorship
• Notes on contradictions between things that appear in these filler episodes and the true canon of Dragon Ball
• The meat of the episode: filler
• Is filler necessary? 
• How much filler is necessary per chapter of manga?
• How does filler work in Dragon Ball?
• We get into the nitty-gritty of tracking how the anime caught up to the manga and also how filler was used judiciously to maintain pace...or not used judiciously until the animators got themselves into trouble, how far behind the anime was than the manga, and how much it caught up when things got dire for the animators and filler became an absolute necessity
• and more, including some general pop culture, trivia, and editorializing, as usual 

Join us as we continue to uncover the cultural meanings, publication facts, inspirations and more behind the wildly popular Dragon Ball franchise.

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Dragon Ball Prototypes (S1E19)

What's the origin of Dragon Ball? Did Toriyama ever workshop this idea or did he just plow forward?

Jelli and Bekinney continue breaking down Akira Toriyama's worldwide manga and anime phenomenon by remaining off the show itself, and delving into some background information on Dragon Ball, specifically, by tackling the genesis of Dragon Ball, and its prototypes via some of Akira Toriyama's one-off manga he created leading up to Dragon Ball's inception

In this episode:

• Jelli and Bekinney encounter a massive power reading in the deep recesses of space
• We talk about WHY we're jumping back, to uncover some of Dragon Ball's genesis
• We discuss the brainstorming between Toriyama and Kazuhiko Torishima (Toriyama's Editor)
• The spark of idea from Toriyama's wife, Nachi Mikami, that clicks a tumbler into place and makes Torishima push Toriyama to create a kung-fu manga
• We discuss the concept of yomikiri manga, which are essentially akin to comic one-shots such as Marvel's What If...? or DC's Elseworlds.
• We talk about the manga Dragon Boy and its similarities to Dragon Ball
• We mention the existence of Viz Media's Akira Toriyama's Manga Theater, a collection of his early works and yomikiri manga spanning his career
• We also shed light on Tong Poo's Great Adventure about a young boy traveling through space and meeting a human girl
• We unveil the similarities between Dragon Ball and his yomikiri Pola & Roid, from 1981
• We talk about the 1982 story Pink: The Rain Jack
• We discuss how Dr. Slump helped Toriyama develop his style and voice and build an audience over the decades
• We discuss the similarities between Akira Toriyama and Peter Jackson, and how one can be somewhat popular from their previous work, before exploding into massive popularity from Lord of the Rings, and how the differ, as Jackson's early works such as Braindead/Dead Alive, Meet the Feebles, and Bad Taste belie his abilities in epic storytelling, as opposed to Toriyama's work very much being in his style
• We discuss how Toriyama is pretty similar to Stan Lee (and Jack Kirby) in creating prototypes for various characters in comics headlined by other characters (ie, Punisher in Amazing Spider-Man or Wolverine in Incredible Hulk)
• We discuss Stan Lee's awesome response to "Who would win in a fantasy fight?"
• We talk about how Toriyama and Torishima's relationship is different from "Batman creator" Bob Kane and his collaborations with Bill Finger 
• We talk about Toriyama's building of a shared universe and how that's similar in some ways to Stephen King's crafting of his Dark Tower franchise
• and more, including some general pop culture, trivia, and editorializing, as usual 

Join us as we continue to uncover the cultural meanings, publication facts, inspirations and more behind the wildly popular Dragon Ball franchise.

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Curse of the Blood Rubies (S1E18)

It's a COMMENTARY TRACK!

Jelli and Bekinney continue breaking down Akira Toriyama's worldwide manga and anime phenomenon by ...jumping off the manga and onto a feature film commentary for the first time ever!

In this episode:

• Jelli and Bekinney find themselves adrift in space
• We sync up our audio commentary for the listeners
• We discuss some of the production facts about the film Dragon Ball Curse of the Blood Rubies such as its 1986 release at the Toei Manga Matsuri film festival, the film's box office, and the production team working on the film
• We talk about the other films released alongside the movie: Gegege no Kitaro Gekitotsu Ijigen Yokai no Dai Hanran (Kitaro of the Graveyard) and Kinnikuman – Seigi Choujin vs Senshi Choujin and talk about Shigeru Mizuki's yokai-based manga (Kitaro) as well as Yoshinori Nakai and Takashi Shimada's superhero wrestling property (Kinnikuman)
• We delve into the background behind the Toei Manga Matsuri – Toei Cartoon Festival and its inception in 1969 and other such festivals around the country such as Toho's Champion Festival
• We talk about director Daisuke Nishio and his work, spanning Dr. Slump, Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, GeGeGe no Kitaro, Kindaichi Case Files, One Piece, Pretty Cure and Halo Legends.
• We shed some light on Toshiki Inoue – the screenplay writer, who also worked on Dr Slump, and live action films including Kamen Rider, Jetman, and work with Hideaki Anno (creator of Neon Genesis Evangelion)
• We talk about composer Shinsuke Kikuchi, albeit briefly, who has worked on Gamera, Doraemon, Getter Robo, Jumborg Ace, and Sister Street Fighter as well as composer Peter Berring, who has a surprising family history
• We discuss the Harmony Gold dub and its method of changing character names as well as the many dubs done by Funimation of the years and how that changed the roles for Ted Cole and Chris Sabat as the voice of Yamcha
• We talk about punny character names
• We discuss the similarities to the studio Ghibli film Castle in the Sky, one of Hayao Miyazaki's earliest film efforts
• and more, including some general pop culture, trivia, and editorializing, as usual as we react to this wickedly fast-paced film

Join us as we continue to uncover the cultural meanings, publication facts, inspirations and more behind the wildly popular Dragon Ball franchise.

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21st Tenkaichi Budokai Manga vs Anime Comparison (S1E17)

Jelli and Bekinney continue breaking down Akira Toriyama's worldwide manga and anime phenomenon by comparing the manga for the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai tournament to the anime episodes. We'll be recapping the storyline and expounding on the similarities and differences.

In this episode:

• Jelli and Bekinney find themselves attempting to leave the planet where they've been stuck
• Brief plot synopsis of the Dragon Ball manga for the next several chapters
• Brief discussion of favorite moments from this arc
• Explanation of Krillin and Launch and their name differences Kururin and Lunch
• We expose a character who's in the "background" (he's actually in the foreground) of a panel drawn in by Toriyama who was actually a tour guide during a trip taken by the manga ka to Bali
• We very briefly discuss the importance of the gi as given to Goku and Krillin by Roshi
• We take a look at Toriyama's claim that all women he draws look the same
• We talk about how a Capsule might work if a person were inside when it was transformed
• Launch as a character in the manga vs the anime
• A discussion about a common complaint with regards to the shugyo (training) undertaken by Goku and Krillin
• Discussion of Krillin's innate pessimism and his character development
• We talk about some of the potential differences between the Viz Big version of the manga and the other editions and translations
• We resolve a major plot thread from the podcast's past! (it's a bit of trivia we forgot to answer in a previous episode)
• We continue talking about Akira Toriyama's "all time favorite movie" the count on which is now up to at least 5
• Our main discussion points, the genre known as wuxia, which has many of the calling cards of Dragon Ball, and a discussion of Yamcha and his usage in the manga including his relationship with Bulma vs the way he's portrayed in the anime
• and more, including some general pop culture, trivia, and editorializing, as usual.

Join us as we continue to uncover the cultural meanings, publication facts, inspirations and more behind the wildly popular Dragon Ball franchise.

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Semifinals and Finals (S1E16)

Can you pull cultural references from seemingly mindless punch fights? Was Toriyama a secret thematic mastermind?

Jelli and Bekinney return to format and continue breaking down Akira Toriyama's worldwide manga and anime phenomenon by tackling episodes 24-28 of the anime. "Krillin's Frantic Attack," "Danger from Above," "The Grand Finals," "Number One Under the Moon?" and "The Final Blow". We'll be discussing the contrasts between the characters and their motivations, and unveiling the secrets behind the success of the Tournament arc.

In this episode:

• Jelli and Bekinney find themselves stuck outside under strange circumstances
• Brief plot synopsis of episodes 24-28 of the Dragon Ball anime
• Brief discussion of favorite moments from the anime episodes
• A talk about whether Dragon Ball has any hidden messages or meanings
• We discuss the nuts-and-bolts of the battles and what the attacks mean
• More discussion about the Japanese honorifics and how those subtleties clue the viewer in to the characters' relationships with one another
• We talk about Goku and Roshi's Kamehameha battle 
• We discuss the appearance of the Ozaru in the battle and how it is named for the first time
• The importance of the moon in Japanese culture and its use in making mochi as well as Master Carrot (Monster Carrot) and what happens to him
• The references to the Jackie Chan film Drunken Master
• Whether Toriyama had any plans coming into the tournament and how those plans may have changed based on popular opinions and perception at the time
• We discuss wuxing, genji, go, and other cultural concepts from Chinese traditions that influence the understanding of the tournament
• We talk about the learning curves along the ways from novice to intermediate to master and how one idolizes different levels of people along the way
• and more, including some general pop culture, trivia, and editorializing, as usual.

Join us as we continue to uncover the cultural meanings, publication facts, inspirations and more behind the wildly popular Dragon Ball franchise.

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Tenkaichi Budokai Quarterfinals (S1E15)

What do Bastion Booger, Jackie Chan, Lingerie, Buddhist stereotypes, Toho's kaiju Gigan, and Fist of the North Star have in common? Something, something DRAGON BALL. Listen to find out more!

Jelli and Bekinney return to format and continue breaking down Akira Toriyama's worldwide manga and anime phenomenon by tackling episodes 20-23 of the anime. We're taking on "Elimination Round," "Smells Like Trouble," "Quarterfinals Begin," and "Monster Beast Giran", and then having a discussion about the characters we meet, specifically Bacterian, Jackie Chun, Nam, Ranfan, and Giran, their inspirations from cultural and literary history as well as where Toriyama may have been introduced to these concepts via film or television.

In this episode:

• Jelli and Bekinney are on a new planet and face all new challenges
• Brief plot synopsis of episodes 20-23 of the Dragon Ball anime
• Brief discussion of favorite moments from the anime episodes
• A talk about some of the Easter Eggs in the episodes
• We talk about jokes that may not have translated well, characters who appear in the backgrounds, and the importance of the backgrounds and backdrops and settings we see
• A possible explanation of where the two monks who face Krillin come from and their roots as a manzai comedy duo
• Bacterian's inspirations from professional wrestling
• Jackie Chun's inspirations and how his name might have been different if Toriyama had been introduced to Jackie Chan via different means
• Ranfan's inspirations from Toriyama's time drawing lingerie ads
• Nam's inspirations from Buddhism
• Giran's inspirations from kaiju films
• Our opinions on the quarterfinal matches and their level of interest
• Whether the subversion of expectations in the brevity of Giran vs Goku works
• The inspiration for the tournament itself from the popularity of baseball in Japan and Fist of the North Star
• History of actual martial arts tournaments over the years, including similar winner-takes-all battles that took place in China hundreds of years ago and also a Chinese novel, Water Margin
• How Toriyama was likely not inspired by these actual tournaments or literary history but rather movies like King Boxer and Master of the Flying Guillotine
• The legacy of the Budokai Tenkaichi and how it impacted future manga moving forward
• and more, including some general pop culture, trivia, and editorializing, as usual.

Join us as we continue to uncover the cultural meanings, publication facts, inspirations and more behind the wildly popular Dragon Ball franchise.

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Launch and Training (S1E14)

How does one mix the concept of "austere training" with a girl whose name is a pun on a meal? What makes this girl a gag that's fun, but ultimately forgotten?

Jelli and Bekinney return to format and continue breaking down Akira Toriyama's worldwide manga and anime phenomenon by tackling episodes 15-19 of the anime. We're taking on "Look Out for Launch", "Find that Stone!", "Milk Delivery", "The Turtle Hermit Way" and at least part of "The Tournament Begins", and then having a discussion about the character of Launch (or Lunch, aka Ranchi) and her inspirations from cultural and literary history as well as where Toriyama may have been introduced to these concepts via film. Then we're dealing with Goku and Krillin's training, or Shugyo, and again, delving into where these concepts begin in literary and cultural history.

In this episode:

• Jelli and Bekinney are adrift in space, with things looking more and more dire
• Brief plot synopsis of episodes 15-19 of the Dragon Ball anime
• Brief discussion of favorite moments from the anime episodes
• A quick aside about a couple moments towards the end of episode 19, where Goku and Krillin are wearing suits, and the setting for the tournament
• We explain where Launch's signature look came from
• We break down the confusion over her name and discuss why she's known as both Launch and Lunch
• We debate whether her good or bad side is the "normal" side, and draw a comparison between the bad side and a previous Toriyama character, Polly Buckets
• We talk about hammerspace
• We editorialize about Launch and her value to the story, whether we'd like to see her back and whether we're upset that she was more or less forgotten
• We discuss the Shugyo, or austere training, of Goku and Krillin at the hands of Master Roshi
• We talk about whether the training via unorthodox methods has any real-life parallels, and a bit about its connections to films a la The Karate Kid
• We compare the idea of Shugyo to the Chinese concept of xiulian, or refinement through fire
• We have a brief aside about calling it Shugyo vs simply training, and why we're for this episode at least, going with the former
• We compare the idea of self-cultivation and self-salvation as espoused in Eastern culture with the more traditionally Western idea of salvation through external means, and more pointedly, Christianity
• We discuss how there is no standard, set, single path in a shugyo method of training and cultivation. One can become a Buddha via multiple paths of self-cultivation
• There's an in-depth discussion of how the concept of Shugyo and ever-increasing challenge is the key to Dragon Ball's ability to steadily increase the stakes and keep the franchise going essentially forever; there's always a higher level
• We compare this concept of training and increasing stakes with the idea of getting into "the zone" or "a groove" when it comes to things in our day-to-day lives
• and more, including some general pop culture, trivia, and editorializing, as usual.

Join us as we continue to uncover the cultural meanings, publication facts, inspirations and more behind the wildly popular Dragon Ball franchise.

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Dragon Ball Culture with Derek Padula (S1E13)

Jelli and Bekinney are bored. So, they're pivoting once again from simply breaking down and discussing Akira Toriyama's worldwide manga and anime phenomenon and looking at a couple episodes of the show, and instead they're doing something BRAND NEW! They're interviewing a special guest

In this episode:

• Jelli and Bekinney are adrift in space
• We place a call to Dragon Ball scholar, Derek Padula, author of the Dragon Ball Culture series, as well as the books It's Over 9000! When Worldviews Collide, and Dragon Soul: 30 Years of Dragon Ball Fandom
• Derek's career accomplishments are highlighted, and we breeze through his resume as an author and content creator
• Derek provides his "origin story" as a fan of Dragon Ball
• A powerful moment, as Derek lays bare a low moment in his life and how the philosophy of Dragon Ball and mindset of Goku helped him to continue on
• Derek discusses how being a fan of Dragon Ball led to him studying the shaolin arts, and accumulating decades of knowledge about East Asian culture
• We ask Derek what inspired him to become an author and he unsurprisingly says it is his way of attempting to give back and help contextualize Dragon Ball for people to help everyone understand why it is so beloved.
• We discuss the writing process, the editing process, what self-publishing looks like in the 21st century for an author, how reviews can be so important to up and coming content creators (hint hint: leave us a review while you're at it)
• Derek gives insight into the level of detail to which he has studied Dragon Ball...every panel on every page, compared to hundreds of hours of pop culture content, movies, games, tv shows, books, and ancient history
• We talk about Toriyama's Dragon World and its escapism, and compare his mentality of crafting a world of fantasy opposite his own personality to other creative types
• Derek hints at other ideas he has including books on the anime, a Dragon Ball cook book, physics and math problems based on the feats of Goku and the Z Warriors, and even more commercial applications of his work
• We wrap up by asking Derek: What makes Dragon Ball still so popular and relevant today
• and more, including some general pop culture, trivia, and editorializing, as usual.

Join us as we continue to uncover the cultural meanings, publication facts, inspirations and more behind the wildly popular Dragon Ball franchise.

 

For more from Derek, feel free to follow him on Twitter @DerekPadula (https://twitter.com/derekpadula) , seek him out on Facebook, and make sure to visit https://thedaoofdragonball.com to stay up to date on Derek's pursuits.

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